In Meaningful work interviews I talk to people about their area of work and expertise to better understand what they do and why it matters to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Jana Bergant<\/a> (LinkedIn<\/a>, YouTube<\/a>, Udemy<\/a>) is a developer, creator, and author of online courses with over 25000 students. She kindly answered my questions on how to approach creating commercial online courses. We\u2019ve also discussed personal growth for developers and how to find your space in the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How do you introduce yourself to people?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n There are three main perspectives on my professional work at the moment. I\u2019m running online courses so I\u2019m an instructor to my students<\/strong> and I\u2019m there to support their learning. For my consulting business, I\u2019m an online elearning coach to my clients<\/strong> and I help them build their own courses. In this context, I\u2019m helping them with a mindset, technology, content structure and I support them on their e-learning journey. For occasional contract work, I\u2019m also an e-learning expert that implements educational resources<\/strong> for my clients. My last project was API documentation and project documentation for a slovenian company BetterCare<\/a> (Marand).<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m someone that follows my passions: technology, writing, consulting, and teaching. <\/p>\n\n\n\n How did you get to the point where you are now – a successful online teacher?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I first got involved in programming during my studies at the Faculty of Organizational Sciences in Kranj. It really clicked for me and I started developing accounting software for my father\u2019s store. After this experience, I applied for an internship at six different local companies and immediately got offers from four. My pitch was \u201cI\u2019m new to programming, passionate about the topic, and these are the things that I would like to learn\u201d and it worked. For a while, I\u2019ve also tried studying Computer Science in addition to finishing my first studies and also working two jobs. It was too much and I ended up just working and learning things as I needed them for my work. So, yes, I\u2019m a self-taught developer. I\u2019ve done a variety of work, mostly as a freelancer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A couple of years ago I had a burnout, got an autoimmune disease that made my life really hard, then got pregnant and I broke up with my partner. It was a really hard time for me. Raising a small child alone made it hard for me to continue with a busy freelancing lifestyle. I wanted to have more time and attention for my daughter and to reduce the overall stress in my life. This is how I found SmartNinja<\/a> and joined them as an instructor. That\u2019s where I discovered Udemy and made my first course just as an experiment. It was for Jekyll, a static website generator<\/a>. I enjoyed the process so I then created a second course where I tried to teach Javascript in a more fun and relaxed way. As later chatbots became popular I found them interesting and I created a course on Facebook Messenger Chatbots<\/a>. Each step was an organic continuation of all that I learned in the past.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m now starting to focus more on connecting and growing my consulting practice as making online courses alone at home can be quite lonely at times.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You mentioned that you did some freelancing work in the past. Do you have any advice for freelancers?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yes, don\u2019t get stuck in a routine. As a freelancer, you should know your niche and at the same also be a generalist that connects things together. It\u2019s good if you can bring in other fields. I\u2019ve also found that it\u2019s important that you\u2019re the kind of person that is not afraid to show yourself to the world. I discovered this difference myself when I started recording my courses. They gave me more exposure to different audiences and as a consequence, I got opportunities that I wouldn\u2019t otherwise have.<\/p>\n\n\n\n If I could do things again I would start speaking, networking, writing books, and doing online courses much much earlier. It requires you to get out of your comfort zone but the upsides are worth it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What drives you to leave your comfort zone?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I need to see meaning in my work. If there\u2019s none I just can\u2019t do it for long, and just going to work every day doesn\u2019t do it for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019ve also discovered as I became a mother that I want to be an example for my daughter. I want her to be feminine, caring, and empathic and at the same time also to be courageous and full of self-worth. This wish for her is coming from my experience growing as a person.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I used to do a lot of work for free and it took me a while to learn that I need to start charging realistic rates for my work. I don\u2019t subscribe anymore to the idea that in code development things should be free. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What did you learn from making your first online course?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Students must get a feeling of accomplishment very early on. In the case of Udemy, where there are a lot of very low price courses, students often buy many courses at the same time. You need to provide a strong hook for students so that they will engage with your content and actually learn. On Udemy students can also ask questions to the course authors. You should address these questions daily. It\u2019s not a lot of work though, about 10 – 15 minutes per day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Reflecting on the course itself also taught me how I could structure it better and what would make it even more useful. Putting each step into a software version control (GIT) also makes it easier for students to follow along. <\/p>\n\n\n\n At the moment I see these courses also as a paid advertisement for my work. Someone pays to see how I work and think. This generated a lot of interesting freelance work in the past with clients from all over the world. It\u2019s unlikely that you\u2019ll get rich from making a course on Udemy. Some do though \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n\n\n\n What does your process for creating an online course look like?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I start with market research.<\/em> Tools like moz.com<\/a> and AnswerThePublic<\/a> give me a general idea of the amount of demand for the topic. If you\u2019re already an expert in your field you can also investigate what kind of more niche content is missing in your area of work. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What I\u2019m seeing is that you need to go beyond just creating a course. You\u2019ll need to create a community that will have courses, books, and other activities as part of it. If you just want to do a course on Udemy there are specific strategies around that but it will still require understanding the people that you\u2019re addressing with your course.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The bigger the niche the easier it will be for you to address your community. For example:<\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m also not limiting myself to one specific platform for the delivery of online courses. Some niches love real-time Zoom meetings while others want to have discussion forums and self-paced learning. It\u2019s more important to go into a really specific niche such as \u201cyoga for women that are going into menopause\u201d instead of just offering general yoga courses. It will allow you to use her language and to connect with her feelings and needs through your offerings. It\u2019s the same thing also if you\u2019re trying to create something for developers. You need to find a specific niche (digital agencies, beginners, ..) and what specific pain are you helping them with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n After I\u2019ve identified my niche customer I then try to figure out their current behavior patterns. What do they search for on Google and which websites do they visit on my topic? That gives me a list of websites or communities that I need to start engaging to get in touch with them and maybe offer them whatever I\u2019m offering.<\/p>\n\n\n\n This all sounds like a lot of work and you haven\u2019t even started to explain the practical parts of building a course.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s true. Building something like this requires a very different mindset from working as a freelancer or having a job. It\u2019s not a fixed scope project where you know how much work it will be and what you are going to get paid. Trading time for money of course makes a good living lifestyle but doesn\u2019t generate passive income streams. <\/p>\n\n\n\n To create revenue streams that \u2018passively\u2019 generate the income you need to go out of your comfort zone and take risks. I think that here in Slovenia we\u2019re very risk-averse. <\/p>\n\n\n\n My first course wasn\u2019t very successful and I could decide to go back to a day job. In my view, in life you fail many times and it\u2019s a part of the process to learn something new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n When you are creating courses, the topic should also be something that you\u2019re enthusiastic and passionate about. If you\u2019re doing courses only for the money it won\u2019t work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How do you decide on which projects to focus your time on?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s definitely a challenge that I still struggle with. It does become easier with experience. I\u2019ve learned it the hard way in the past when I said yes too many times and that led to health problems in my life. I would really advise everyone to find their limits early and not discover them the hard way. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you use any special equipment when producing your video courses?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I have two extra LED lights, I record myself with my phone and I use a Rode microphone<\/a>. For screen recording and editing I use Camtasia<\/a>. There\u2019s no need for anything more complicated.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How long does it take you to produce your videos all together (content, scripting, recording, and editing)?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n For my YouTube channel<\/a>, it\u2019s about one day of work for one ten-minute video. For an Udemy course where you need much more content, it can be easily two months of work. It\u2019s probably possible to do it faster but that\u2019s not stopping me at the moment from doing the work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I recognize that it\u2019s risky in terms of required time investment and that there are no guarantees that the videos will sell at all. It is still a necessary step if you want to build additional revenue streams.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What are some of your favorite resources for leveling up and people that you learn from?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I would suggest reading at least one book per month that helps you grow. It\u2019s an investment you\u2019ll never regret. I also have coaches I hire to help me get better in different areas. If you can move faster by learning from someone who has already solved what you are struggling with, why not use it and learn from it. Not all lessons need to be learned the hard way!<\/p>\n\n\n\n What I learned from talking with Jana<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n Technological aspects of creating online courses are the easy part. Mindset and being willing to invest time into the long-term is the hard part.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It’s a journey and it takes many tries to arrive at the point where an outsider can see success.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It’s quite possible to decide on what kind of life you want and then adjust the type of work that you do to that.<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Jana Bergant is a developer, creator, and author of online courses with over 25000 students. She kindly answered my questions on how to approach creating commercial online courses. 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